Join Of Venice Quotes Author Gary Renard On Love and Forgiveness, Mass Metaphysical Denial, And Jesus PT II

TIS: So you mentioned Arten & Pursah, who are two ascended masters that accommodate you with the chat for your books. Can you allocution about your accord with them and who they are/were? GR: Sure, I anticipate that the best way for humans to anticipate about Arten & Pursah, which took me years to realize, but I assuredly came to acquire that what Arten & Pursah actually are, are manifestations of the Holy Spirit. They’re affectionate of like added things in the faculty that this is a dream, and the Holy Spirit has to appearance up for us in some anatomy in the dream. If the Holy Spirit didn’t appearance up in the dream, we’d never be able to apprehend “It”. So the Holy Spirit could yield the anatomy of a articulation in your mind, which is the way that Helen Schucman (the book of A Advance in Miracles), wrote down the Course, because she heard the articulation in her apperception and that’s one way the Holy Spirit can appearance up in the dream. The Holy Spirit will appearance up about is a lot of adapted for anniversary person, as whatever they can acquire and understand.For religious people, the Holy Spirit can appearance up in the dream as the Virgin Mary, and they’d say that’s the Virgin Mary, but what it actually is, is it’s the Holy Spirit assuming up in the dream as the Virgin Mary, because that’s something they can acquire and understand. I’ve accomplished in Mexico a amount of times and they’re actually into Our Lady of Guadalupe, which is the Virgin Mary assuming up in New Mexico City, and for them that’s Our Lady of Guadalupe, but what it actually is, is the Holy Spirit assuming up that way. For some people, the Holy Spirit can appearance up as an angel because that’s what they can acquire and acquire afterwards fear. That however, is not actually an angel, but a attribute of the Holy Spirit assuming up in the dream as an angel.At one point ACIM is talking about the Holy Spirit and it says “His is the articulation for God and is accordingly taken form. This anatomy is not his reality.” So the absoluteness of the Holy Spirit is spirit, which is actually the aforementioned as God, but afresh that spirit shows up in the dream, and this is not God, but the Holy Spirit, which you can aswell anticipate of as your anamnesis of God. You can never actually lose it because it’s still there in the mind. In fact, you can anticipate of the apperception as accepting three parts. There’s what the Advance calls “you”, it’s not the complete you, but it’s the allotment that thinks it’s afar itself from its source. You could alarm this allotment the mind. Afresh you accept two added things in the mind, you accept the Holy Spirit and the ego, which are both allusive for your attention.The Holy Spirit of advance knows it’s traveling to win eventually, as it’s apparent aggregate that’s happened from the alpha of time until the end. Afresh you aswell accept the ego, and it’s like you’re watching this movie, and you accept the Holy Spirit sitting on one ancillary of you, and the ego on the other. The ego is aggravating to get you to accept to its estimation of the movie, which consists of judgment, condemnation, and guilt. All you accept to do is about-face on your TV awning and you’ll see a admirable archetype of judgment, answerability and accusation which goes on forever, or you can see a bulletin of adulation and absolution which is about ridiculed by humans in the apple because they anticipate they are their ego. They’re not, but they anticipate they are. So they become abashed and anticipate they are their physique and an alone person.So for me, the Holy Spirit showed up as these two humans sitting on my active allowance couch as Arten and Pursah, and it took me a brace of years to apprehend they are actually just symbols, or manifestations of the Holy Spirit assuming up in the dream to brainwash me on how to go home. That’s the Holy Spirit’s job, it leads you home, literally. So that’s what they are accomplishing for abounding humans and that’s accomplished with me. I accomplished I’m not the abecedary in my books. I like to anticipate I’ve become a acceptable student. They in actuality had me use a quotation, appropriate at the alpha of The Disappearance of the Universe, from the Course, which explains how they in actuality appearance up here, which says, “There are those who accept accomplished God directly, application no trace of carnal limits, canonizing their own character perfectly.” So that’s an account of aware masters. They become aware and bethink their own character perfectly, and the best way to do that is to see it in others.The Advance says about Jesus, “Jesus was the name of the man who saw the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God”. That’s how you bethink God, how you bethink your accurate identity, by seeing it in others. Arten and Pursah aswell did that, not if they were Thomas and Thaddeus, who were two of the aboriginal aggregation two thousand years ago, admitting they actually abstruse a lot at that time. They accomplished their broad-mindedness in a altered lifetime, as “Arten and Pursah”, and now they’re out of here, because already you’re out of here, you’re out of here, you never arise back. The adduce I acclimated beforehand from ACIM already afresh says, “There are those who accept accomplished God directly, application no trace of carnal limits, canonizing their own character perfectly.” It afresh says, “These ability be alleged the agents of teachers, because although they are no best visible, their angel can yet be alleged upon, and they will arise anywhere it is accessible for them to do so” and that’s the Holy Spirit.So what we’re seeing, whether it’s Arten or Pursah, or you or me, or our wives and friends, what we’re seeing is what the Advance would alarm an angel that is there in the dream, but it’s not a complete person. It’s in actuality something that is actually different. What that accepting actually is, is way above that, they are something that is bigger than the cosmos of time and space. It’s something that can’t even be independent by the cosmos of time and space, but the Holy Spirit takes on anatomy in adjustment to acquaint with us. The Holy Spirit can even appearance up in our dreams at night and advise us there. In fact, that’s one of the Holy Spirits agency of teaching us.

So whatever way the Holy Spirit shows up, it will be the best way for anniversary alone person. The Holy Spirit does not alone allege complete English like in ACIM. The Holy Spirit will allocution to you in whatever accent works the best for you. If it’s Pig Latin, afresh it’s Pig Latin. It doesn’t amount what it is, what affairs is that the Holy Spirit is communicating with us. If it didn’t, we’d never be able to acquisition our way out of here, but because it does, whether it shows up as Arten and Pursah, or the Virgin Mary, it doesn’t actually matter. All that affairs is that we’re accepting announced to by the Holy Spirit in such a way that we can be led home.TIS: Appropriate on. So Arten and Pursah aswell action a complete altered adaptation of Jesus than is a lot of frequently understood, and accepted, by accepted association today. Can you allocution about Jesus as they knew him?GR: Able-bodied the way that they alarm him, that they in actuality get into added in the third book (which should be out in the spring), but to them, it was hasty how accustomed he was. Obviously, he had bags of humans at some times who capital to arise and apprehend him speak, and he was apprehension of as accepting complete special, but he didn’t anticipate of himself as accepting special. He lived a accustomed life. He was married, admitting he didn’t accept any accouchement like some humans think. He knew how to accept accustomed relationships, which is why I animate humans to accept accustomed relationships, even if you are what the apple would alarm “spiritual”. It’s OK to accept accustomed relationships because that’s area you’re traveling to acquisition your absolution acquaint and opportunities.The Advance isn’t about accepting abroad from the apple or relationships, the Advance is adage that broad-mindedness can be begin by the things that are appropriate in foreground of your face. All you accept to do is absolve them and change the way you attending at them. So you don’t accept to go off and meditate on a abundance in Tibet for twenty years, you can reside a accustomed activity and that’s what Jesus did. Yes, he catholic a lot. This book will allocution about the alleged “lost years”, from the time he was twelve to thirty. I anticipate humans will adore that. There’s a lot about two thousand years ago and what it was like then. I anticipate abundant of the point is that these humans were humans who had accompany and relatives. They were into family, culture, and the Jewish attitude at that time. Jesus was a Rabbi from the time he was twelve. It’s accurate that he was teaching in the temples if he was twelve and the added Rabbis addressed him as a Rabbi, admitting the actuality that he was twelve, because he knew just as abundant as hey did.All these lifetimes are like consecutive dreams that are traveling on. At one point, the Advance describes it as the consecutive adventures of the body, and it aswell says that all you accept to admit is that bearing was not the beginning, and afterlife is not the end, because if it comes to incarnation, we never in actuality embodied into bodies, it just feels that way. We’re never in a body, we’re in actuality seeing with the mind, and the apocryphal acquaintance is assertive that we’re in a body. The Advance says it break you free, gradually, boring and actually from that acquaintance and transforms you over into the acquaintance of accepting spirit, but it doesn’t arise all at once. If it happened too fast, we would be afraid.It’s a bit-by-bit thing, affectionate of like a caterpillar acceptable a butterfly. Aboriginal it goes through a cushion process, and by traveling through that metamorphosis, it gradually changes from one affectionate of a accepting to addition affectionate of a being. It actually changes itself, and its identity, and that’s what the Advance does for us. It leads us through this cushion process, which is facilitated by the absolution process. It’s clear, even in the New Testament, that Jesus two thousand years ago consistently accomplished forgiveness. It may not attending the aforementioned way that we convenance forgiveness, because he was altered than a lot of people, and a lot of humans didn’t acquire him. There was that amount accumulation of humans that did acquire him though. There was Jesus and Mary, and Thomas who was affiliated to a woman called Isa. There was aswell Thaddeus and anyone called Stephen and Phillip.Then you had addition accumulation of humans who were headed by Jesus’ brother James, who was in actuality the aboriginal baton of the church. They acclimated to alarm him James the Just. James, and abnormally Peter, capital a church. It wasn’t Jesus’ ambition to alpha a religion, but they did, and that’s if the advocate Paul came forth and they won out eventually. The abbey became ascendant and they destroyed all the added scripture that they didn’t accede with, and that’s why by 400a.d. there was not one Gospel of Thomas larboard in the world. Yes, anyone active a archetype of it in a abode in Egypt, which was dug up in 1945, but it’s not a complete copy. There’s a lot of being that was added assimilate it later, but you can still get a glimpse of what Jesus was adage and teaching.He was added of a Zen adept or Wisdom abecedary than annihilation else. He wasn’t an apocalyptic amount and wasn’t presenting himself as God’s alone begotten son, the way that adoration has presented him to us. He was adage look, you can be like me, this is what formed for me. Try these things, try this affectionate of forgiveness, try abutting with God, because that’s complete prayer. Accepting quiet and abutting with God, acceptable one with God is complete prayer. Complete adoration isn’t about words, it’s about an experience. So he approved to advance humans to this airy acquaintance which is the alone affair that will anytime achieve humans happy.Words will not do it, the apple will not do it, but an complete acquaintance of what you in actuality are, and area you in actuality are, will do it because it’s something that is whole, abounding and complete. It’s something that is complete absoluteness with God, and that’s the abundant mystical acquaintance that the masters of history accept talked about. The admirable acquaintance of what it’s like to al of a sudden acquisition yourself in the attendance of God, so abundant that you in actuality are the aforementioned as God, that acquaintance of complete oneness. It in actuality assault abroad annihilation that this apple has to offer. There’s annihilation in this apple that can analyze with that acquaintance of the complete absoluteness with God, there’s annihilation even close.So it is possible, even while you arise to be here, to acquaintance that, and already again, it’s the action of absolution which helps to facilitate that experience. As you disengage the ego and accept that experience, it’s just so abundant that you apprehend it has to be the truth, it has to be reality, and that it’s bigger and above annihilation the cosmos of time and amplitude has to offer. So it’s actually that acquaintance that the Advance is directed towards. At one point, the Advance says “A accepted canon is impossible, but a accepted acquaintance is not alone possible, but necessary”. In the workbook of the Course, Jesus is talking about these actually abundant questions we all have. For example, if I’m active a workshop, which I do basically every week, we’ll accept a Q&A session, and anyone will get up and ask a catechism like “How did I get here”? So I’ll say that according to ACIM, you’re not here. And they’ll about say, able-bodied yeah, but how did I get here?So those kinds of questions are advised to achieve humans be assertive that they are here, but ACIM would say that the abounding acquaintance of the atonement, and the truth, would be that break never occurred. So you’re in actuality at home in God, absent of exile, but altogether able of activation to reality, and already again, that activation is enlightenment. In the workbook, Jesus says the ego will ask abounding questions this advance does not answer. For example, how did the absurd occur, and by the impossible, he agency this abstraction that we can abstracted ourselves from God, that we can abstracted ourselves from our source. Afresh he says something complete interesting, he says, “There is no answer, alone an experience. Seek alone this and do not let canon adjournment you”.So what he’s adage is that the complete acknowledgment to our a lot of difficult questions in life, the complete acknowledgment to those things we can’t amount out, will arise to us not in the anatomy of words, but in the anatomy of an experience. An acquaintance of what you actually are, and area you actually are, and that is the answer. It’s that acquaintance which the Advance is directed towards, because it is the answer. If you accumulate accident the ego, you’re traveling to accept adventures like that, and eventually, it will become your abiding experience, and that’s reality. Absoluteness is something that is constant, it’s something that doesn’t waiver, about-face or change. That’s why two thousand years ago Jesus talked about architecture your abode aloft the bedrock instead of the sand. The beach is the alive bank of time, of this world. The bedrock is reality. It is God, Spirit, the Tao, whatever you wish to alarm it, as continued as you acquire the Tao is complete stillness.The acumen it is complete calmness is because it’s not alive or changing. If it was alive and changing, it wouldn’t be perfect, it would be evolving. And if it was evolving, it would be evolving appear perfection, which would beggarly that it’s not perfect. But it is perfect, it’s constant, and it’s something that can be accomplished which has that basal activity of bendability that does not abide in a acting apple of about-face and change. The way the Advance puts it is, “Whatever is accurate is abiding and cannot change or be changed”. So that anchorage it down a little bit.There’s annihilation we see in the cosmos of time and amplitude that doesn’t about-face or change. Whether it’s activity or annihilation else. Humans about aberration activity for spirit and it’s not, it’s just a altered anatomy of matter. You can anticipate of amount and activity as two abandon of the aforementioned coin. And afresh you accept after-effects and particles, but that’s still a action of duality, which is what you see all through the cosmos of time and space. You accept amount and aphotic matter, and the aphotic amount cancels out the added matter. I’ve had physicists acquaint me the cosmos can’t possibly be actuality and I’d acquaint them yes, that’s true, it can’t possibly be actuality because it’s an apparition based on duality and opposites, and absoluteness is something that is above the veil, above the cosmos of time and space.At one point, there’s this admirable adduce in the Advance which says, “Beyond the body, above aggregate you see and yet somehow familiar, is reality”. So it’s somehow accustomed because the accuracy is there in our benumbed apperception too. The accuracy is there because we apperceive aggregate on some level, somewhere, and it’s there to be remembered. The Advance says, “Forgiveness is the way we will remember”. There are a lot of acceptance and agents of the Advance who don’t apperceive this, because they don’t actually acquire the Course, and haven’t taken the time to apprentice it, and instead absorb too abundant time teaching it. I spent a lot of time acquirements the Advance afore I anytime went out and accomplished anybody about it. I had some accomplished agents advice me along, and I still do.As you know, Arten and Pursah accept accustomed me a lot of of the actual for a fourth book and I’m in a alteration appearance appropriate now. Even admitting I’m still traveling to biking and speak, I’m not traveling to do that actually as much. I’m demography two months off from mid December to mid February, as able-bodied as two months off in July & August. So I’m boring but actually accepting aback into writing. I anticipate my fourth book will arise out appealing bound afterwards the third one. Cindy and I are aswell traveling to address a book about relationships, so I’ll be accomplishing added autograph and beneath traveling. I wish to get the two added aback into balance, because the endure brace of years accept been mostly about traveling.TIS: Yeah, you’re actually a complete active man! I saw that you aswell accept a 7-Day Mediterranean Workshopscheduled for next year in May, whichsounds rather nice. Can you allocution about this airy chance at sea?GR: Yeah, I actually like the cruises because I’ve had abundant adventures with them. Next year will be our fourth year in a row. Our aboriginal cruise was to Alaska, the additional was to the Caribbean, the third was to the Mexican Riviera, and next May we’re traveling to alpha off in Venice, and do a cruise of four of the Greek islands, including Santorini which is actually fantastic. One of the things I like about the cruises is that it’s an affectionate group. There may be like a hundred of us and it’s affectionate of like A Advance In Miracles or Disappearance of the Cosmos reunion. Some of us already apperceive anniversary added from added cruises, and new humans arise from all over the world.

It’s a abundant amusing and acquirements acquaintance because we accept affluence of time during the advance of the week. I’ll advise for about thirteen hours and we accept our own allowance to do that in. Afresh on the canicule that we go into anchorage somewhere, we go assimilate bank and there are excursions you can do, admitting you can aswell go off on your own, whatever you want. It’s just abundant to see these places. It’s a actually admirable amusing acquaintance and on top of that, it’s a abundant acquaintance of accepting added into spirituality, accelerating your process, accident the ego etc. It’s a admirable situation. If anyone wants to apperceive about the cruise, they can go to my website (listed beneath interview), annal down and bang on the cruise banner.TIS: Sound like an alarming time. In closing, can you busy a little added on your next two books? I apperceive you already did a bit, but there’s so abundant apprehension surrounding them!GR: Sure. One of the things humans will apprehension in the third book is the complete absorbing aeon of Jesus’ absent years, from the ages of twelve to thirty, and at one point in the book, both Thomas and Thaddeus, who were two of the aboriginal aggregation two thousand years ago, able-bodied Arten and Pursah leave and Thomas and Thaddeus appearance up. So I get to accept a appealing diffuse chat with them. There’s all kinds of adventures I accept that Arten and Pursah advance me to in the third book that I anticipate humans will acquisition fascinating.As far as the fourth book, I’ve been guided not to say too abundant about that yet. I anticipate Arten and Pursah wish it to be a surprise. I will say one affair though, in the fourth book we’ll get to apprentice about some of the antecedent incarnations that Jesus had, like, how did he get to be Jesus? How did he apprentice so much? How did he get to be that man who came aback for his final lifetime, who already knew appealing abundant aggregate that he had to know? He didn’t actually accept any affectionate of acquirements curve, he already knew aggregate by the time he was twelve and teaching the Rabbis in the temples. How did he get that way?So I anticipate it will be complete absorbing for humans to apprehend about Jesus’ antecedent incarnations, how he learned, and grew, and came to be an aware master. And of advance that’s something that will arise for all of us. The Advance teaches us that we’re all traveling to the aforementioned place. It guarantees us a blessed resolution to this accomplished affair and that’s addition acumen that I adulation the Course, because it gives you a way out, admitting a lot of spiritualities do not. A lot of spiritualities alone advice you cope with what you’re seeing here. The Advance does added than that. It gives you a way home through the accident of the ego, which is why conservancy is a way of undoing.I don’t anticipate that it’s for everybody, and I never say that it is. It’s not consistently easy, it can be difficult. Complete about you’ll apprehend humans say the Advance is simple because it’s adage that you’re actually just allotment amid one of two things, and alone one of them is real, which is the absoluteness of spirit. So you’ll apprehend humans say that it’s simple, but you’ll about never apprehend humans say that it’s easy. If you get out there and the traveling gets tough, afresh you’re traveling to be tempted to abatement aback into your old way of cerebration that you’re a body, and anticipation people, and accepting sucked into the accomplished thing. The apperception training of ACIM is complete important, because at the alpha of the workbook it says, “An green apperception can achieve nothing”. You actually do accept to accept that discipline. The workbook acquaint are abundant at giving you that conduct and the added you get acclimated to it, the added you get acclimated to cerebration forth a assertive band with the Holy Spirit. The added you do that, the added you get acclimated to cerebration that way, instead of cerebration with the ego.It takes convenance but it’s doable. You don’t accept to be a ability to do this. I never went to academy but I anticipate that the superior of backbone is complete important. You accept to wish to stick with it, you accept to wish to go home, you accept to wish to accept that acquaintance of spirit and not everybody is accessible for that. If you are accessible though, I anticipate you apperceive it. If ACIM is for you, you apperceive it. I anticipate that my books can be complete accessible in absolution humans apperceive if this is something that is for them or not.TIS: And I can alone adjure to that. I approved to apprehend A Advance in Miracles off and on for a while but to no avail. Afterwards account The Disappearance of the Universe, and alert to your audio books however, I absolutely began to acquire what the advance is teaching. So I’m complete beholden for all the plan you’ve contributed, and the appulse it’s had on my life. GR: Able-bodied acknowledge you Chris. I acknowledge you adage that, and I acknowledge you accomplishing this interview. Maybe we can do it afresh sometime, possibly if the books arise out.TIS: Yeah, I’ll be there!